latinopikachu Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginph Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Does it just look at the MAF sensor to determine the amount of fuel? What does MAP do? They might optimize the system for MCE and you may run lean after the conversion. Â Worst case scenario, afpr. The injectors can handle the load, that I'm sure of. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renboy Posted May 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 I don't think that would be the case. The injectors spray as the air is entering the chamber (and the milly does run rich to begin with), then as the compression stroke starts, the s/c makes sure the a/f mix doesn't escape. So it's set for the correct a/f mix for 2.3L. What makes a Miller a Miller is that the s/c compensates for what would be lost compression because of valve timing. Instead of the valves closing and the piston doing the compression for 2.3L, the valves stay open and the s/c does the compressing. The volumetric efficiency remains the same. And if we find out that it is running leaner than desired, we could up the fuel pressure with an afpr forcing more gas. Not to mention, since the engine is boosted from factory, it will have more aggressive fuel maps to begin with, and if the o2 sensors find it's running lean, they'll do the fine tuning. The most important part is that the fuel injectors can handle the fuel required (which they can). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginph Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 Thanks for the info. I know there are 6 injectors but dont know where they are and when they inject. I thought that they inject into the cylinder after intake closes.. What does MAP do then? Â This project have to advance to build a really interesting engine from millenia community, Ren being the leader As far as i know this type of s/c is not usually used for auto applications.. Â I don't think that would be the case. The injectors spray as the air is entering the chamber (and the milly does run rich to begin with), then as the compression stroke starts, the s/c makes sure the a/f mix doesn't escape. So it's set for the correct a/f mix for 2.3L. What makes a Miller a Miller is that the s/c compensates for what would be lost compression because of valve timing. Instead of the valves closing and the piston doing the compression for 2.3L, the valves stay open and the s/c does the compressing. The volumetric efficiency remains the same. And if we find out that it is running leaner than desired, we could up the fuel pressure with an afpr forcing more gas. Not to mention, since the engine is boosted from factory, it will have more aggressive fuel maps to begin with, and if the o2 sensors find it's running lean, they'll do the fine tuning. The most important part is that the fuel injectors can handle the fuel required (which they can). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renboy Posted May 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 The map sensor is used with the vaf, and temp sensor to tell the computer approximately how much air is going into the cylinders. It's slightly more complicated than just using a maf, though it doesn't have the air restriction in the intake, so it is better (imo). Â The injectors sit in the fuel rails right above the intake manifolds where the manifolds meet the heads. Look between the s/c and the manifolds and you should be able the see the tops of the rails (black plastic). Since mazda decided on side feed injectors, they're completely covered by the rails. To remove/see them you have to remove the top of the rails. Â Injectors that inject after the valves close were historically only used on diesel engines but are now seeing their way into gas engines too (called direct inject). I don't know why but for some reason the car companies had problems with emissions with direct inject on gas engines. Direct inject systems are far superior to normal fuel injection as the fuel gets injected during compression and thus atomizing the fuel better resulting in a better burn. This is why I don't understand how they had emissions problems with this system I still have a lot to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginph Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 Who doesnt? Thanks for the info session.. Â I still have a lot to learn. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excluesiveonez Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 ren... how much would u charge the guinnea pig to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ing-schu@online.no Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 An interesting idea... I'd guess the knock sensor would be busy though, sinse the compression ratio will increase quite alot with conventional valve timing. Add up with that charge all the way from idle and up... Speaking of idle, I guess the ECU would be rather confused lol. But I'm all ears s far as results of this is concerned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renboy Posted May 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 An interesting idea... I'd guess the knock sensor would be busy though, sinse the compression ratio will increase quite alot with conventional valve timing. Â You would most likely have to retard timing a little, half decent gas and cooler plugs, but other than that it should be safe. Scratch that, we'd have to drop the boost a little. At 10:1 compression, with 13-14psi we'd be sitting at 16-17:1 compression in the cylinders. Â Add up with that charge all the way from idle and up... Speaking of idle, I guess the ECU would be rather confused lol. But I'm all ears s far as results of this is concerned The idle can be adjusted, and since the s/c sits after the throttle body, it can't pull excess air in to boost. Which also means no rice bov. Â Clue, price... Â No way to tell, since I don't know what unexpected problems can arise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excluesiveonez Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 ok fine... no priceyet... how long do u think it would take to do the whole project? Â arghh i think i would be the guinnea pig if u dont do it urself first... Â but i would only trust u doing it so..... road trip! Â oh how do u lower boost? and lower compression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohamedeladawy@hotmail.com Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 wow...if i had my millenia, i would totally use it as a guinea pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinopikachu Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 certainly not, and ruin the SCs 300k record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renboy Posted May 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 When installing the cams, the vcg's, timing belt, and water pump should all be changed. So, doing everything, I'd say it would take in the neighbourhood of 14 hours (including smoke, drink, food, etc. breaks). That part's the easy part. Â Why me, there's a lot of people that have more experience/knowledge about cars/modification than I do? No matter how you cut it, this engine is really no different than any other (rotary/constant combustion aside). Â There's a lot of ways to reduce boost, I'm just not sure of the easiest way in this application. Reducing compression is another story, there's only two ways: space the head further from the block (shit method), or new pistons (expensive method, especially here where they would be custom afaik). Â To be honest, I'd like to try this, but on my own milly. Why, because I'd try just the cam swap first, and if I blow the engine...I try again. I don't want to be responsible for destroying other peoples cars. It's easier and cheaper for me to fix a milly than 95% of milly owners. Not to mention I know Troy would be there and we'd have the first RenTroy cycle milly on the road. The problem is I don't have a milly, and I'm very picky so finding the right candidate may take time. But I will eventually need a family car, and a 300hp 5speed RenTroy cycle milly would do quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excluesiveonez Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 fine  i would like to be the second one then when u get the bugs taken care of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinopikachu Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 and i shall design the logo for hte engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excluesiveonez Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 he could probably do a decent job on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 He is against the idea of the mod.... because it is not a MCE anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankzao Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I will look for an S as well. As long as it runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renboy Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 My criteria are as follows: exterior has to be in good shape (mint preferably) only consider a navy or burgundy only a 99-00 interior has to be mint (either grey or tan, both are nice) must be a mce (obviously) does not need to run (blown engine, transmission or both...don't care) completely stock (that way I don't have to deal with other peoples half-assed work) no more than $1g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginph Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 burgundy or navy? report to milly sighting if you happen to "see" one.. good luck..  My criteria are as follows: exterior has to be in good shape (mint preferably) only consider a navy or burgundy only a 99-00 interior has to be mint (either grey or tan, both are nice) must be a mce (obviously) does not need to run (blown engine, transmission or both...don't care) completely stock (that way I don't have to deal with other peoples half-assed work) no more than $1g  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankzao Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 agreed ren but I do not care about the interior or exterior // after all it is an experiment // if it works I'll throw it all into my 00 S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renboy Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Experiment, no. Experiments fail, I won't fail. If it takes 5 engines, so be it, I'm quite persistant, borderline stubborn. But I want it for a car I will drive, and those are the criteria for a milly that I would drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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