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These Cars Are Shunned


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#1 Xedosman

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 04:39 PM

One of our largest insurance companies, If, offer insurance covering everything, including mechanical failure. You have to get the car approved by an approved garage to get the insurance, unless the car is brand new.

However there are certain brands and/ or models they don't want to insure. One reason is because the car is substantially more expensive to repair because it is exotic or very expensive, like Aston Martin or Maserati. Other cars shunned are brands or models with known issues, like Range Rover, and... does this surprice anyone; JEEP tongue.gif

Some brands are related to model, like previous gen. Audi A6 2,5 TDI V6 which is a major piece of shit car with all kinds of issues, while other brands are judged as generally under par, like Jeep. Hence no model relation, just the entire brand. And, like they say here, if If don't what these cars, neither do you!

Well, here it is, the list:

1 Alpine
2 BMW 650, 750, 850, Z8, Alpina- og M-versions
3 Aston Martin
4 Alle Audi with 2.5 Tdi engine (even certain A4, A6 and Allroad) all S- og RS-versions
5 Bentley
6 Bitter
7 Bugatti
8 Chrysler Voyager/Grand Voyager (pre 2003)
9 De Tomaso
10 Ferrari
11 Ginetta
12 Honda NSX
13 Iso
14 Jaguar
15 Jensen
16 Jeep
17 Lada
18 Lamborghini
19 Lancia Thema 8.32 and Delta Integrale
20 Land Rover (Freelander from chassisnr 324162 (2002) is OK)
21 Lotus
22 Maserati
23 Mercedes S600, SL600, CL600, 600 SE, SLR, all AMG-versions
24 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution and 3000 GT
25 Morgan
26 Nissan 200SX, Skyline and all ZX
27 Opel Calibra Turbo
28 Panther
29 Polonez
30 Polski Fiat
31 Porsche
32 Proton
33 Range Rover
34 Rolls Royce
35 Saab 9-3 and 9-5 1998-2003. OK if engine lubrication issues is dealt with.
36 Subaru Impreza WRC/WRX
37 TVR
38 Venturi
39 VW Sharan 1.9 TDi automatic
The engineers hoped to modify the boot lid in order to minimize wind resistance.The easiest method involved attaching
a rear spoiler, though that would detract from the vehicle's lines.
Alternatively, the lip of the lid could be enlarged, though that would require significant more work. Naturally, the team chose the second approach, and set to work in a wind tunnel lab in Miyoshi. A while later, they emerged with the hoped-for design, which was both aerodynamic and aesthetically pleasing...


2000 Xedos 9 2,5. Stock features: push-a-button retract mirrors, 1500 kg towing capasity, tranny cooler, rear swaybar, pollen filter, roof rack mounts.

Ported heads, knifeedged IM, dropin K&N with wheelwell airduct.


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#2 Troutman

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 05:20 PM

I have no objections to the list, though thankfully the Scorpio is not there.
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'07 Holden Caprice

#3 Bad Kitty

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 06:17 PM

NDD laugh.gif

a pity that the Jeep is tho...
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#4 ///BHRpowered

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 07:50 PM

Jeeps are damn more reliable then pretty much anything else on that list, and there hella cheap to fix

If they were smart they would put the millenia on that list, that'll cost you to repair. I have never had a single failure on a Jeep except those long after expected lifetime. Given that the car is punished offroad, driven through deep water, driven daily, and not even garaged that is quite a bit more
Mazdaworld Federation - General/"Underboss"

2000 Millenia S...It's a car with stuff in it
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee...4.7, Limited, Quadra-Drive, Loaded.
2005 Audi S4...V8, 6spd, miltek
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee...5.7 Hemi, Overland, '14 LED headlights coming soon
2005 ZX-6rr...Muzzy, power commander 3, bixenons
1987 GPZ500...Vance Hines, full led, bixenons
2013 Lamborghini LP560-4 Spyder...possible twin turbo?
"You have entered, BHR's world. Proceed at your own risk" - MCfrank/zaocaddy
"BHR is more correct than you could imagine." - Troutman
"I guess we all proved BHR right.....again....." - Frankzao
QUOTE(SKI @ Apr 27 2006, 01:26 AM) View Post

First of all, we are smart enough to know that BHR doesn't really exist, he is an illusion in all our minds....

"The perfect weapon for terrorising Veyrons!"

#5 Troutman

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 06:12 AM

Real statistics are those based upon more than one or even ten persons' experiences. wink.gif
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"The silver glow of the starlight in the night sky forever beckons us to a far greater reality; it is only in death that we accept the invitation." -The Great Troutman, Nov 18, 2008
'07 Holden Caprice

#6 Xedosman

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 07:55 AM

As it happens the Millenia was never sold in Europe. And actually the Xedos was rated as 4th most reliable car by ADAC in Germany maybe 4 years ago; best in its class. So you'd better face it; the Xedos is a superior car which no downgraded to suit market Millenia can ever be compared with.

The Xedos was built to last, not to mention cope with most things people do to their cars, like driving.

Coming to think about it, I can't remember seeing a single servey where Jeep and Land Rover are'nt close to the bottom. But of course, it can be a decade after decade coincidence.
The engineers hoped to modify the boot lid in order to minimize wind resistance.The easiest method involved attaching
a rear spoiler, though that would detract from the vehicle's lines.
Alternatively, the lip of the lid could be enlarged, though that would require significant more work. Naturally, the team chose the second approach, and set to work in a wind tunnel lab in Miyoshi. A while later, they emerged with the hoped-for design, which was both aerodynamic and aesthetically pleasing...


2000 Xedos 9 2,5. Stock features: push-a-button retract mirrors, 1500 kg towing capasity, tranny cooler, rear swaybar, pollen filter, roof rack mounts.

Ported heads, knifeedged IM, dropin K&N with wheelwell airduct.


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#7 ///BHRpowered

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:24 AM

I agree its of high quality, but you cannot deny any repair or part is quite expensive, and since that was a reason listed it would seem logical, I would bet a millenia is just as expensive if not more so to repair then any AMG or 600 series mercedes

The 93-98 grand cherokee's had almost NO problems other then tail lights and VC going bad on 5.2 models

the 99-04 grands only problems were so called "blend doors" which was only on limited models (mine haven't failed) and warpped rotors which was fixed in 02 with new caliper designs

05-10 grands, well other then people hating the interior color designs and some layout changes the biggest complant is the over engineered front fork style suspension which makes aftermarket lifts and kits very expensive and hard to engineer.
Mazdaworld Federation - General/"Underboss"

2000 Millenia S...It's a car with stuff in it
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee...4.7, Limited, Quadra-Drive, Loaded.
2005 Audi S4...V8, 6spd, miltek
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee...5.7 Hemi, Overland, '14 LED headlights coming soon
2005 ZX-6rr...Muzzy, power commander 3, bixenons
1987 GPZ500...Vance Hines, full led, bixenons
2013 Lamborghini LP560-4 Spyder...possible twin turbo?
"You have entered, BHR's world. Proceed at your own risk" - MCfrank/zaocaddy
"BHR is more correct than you could imagine." - Troutman
"I guess we all proved BHR right.....again....." - Frankzao
QUOTE(SKI @ Apr 27 2006, 01:26 AM) View Post

First of all, we are smart enough to know that BHR doesn't really exist, he is an illusion in all our minds....

"The perfect weapon for terrorising Veyrons!"

#8 Xedosman

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:57 AM

Parts for the Xedos are indeed expensive, at least here. Luckily there aren't many needed; part from rear shocks and discs/pads I have only had two issues: the knock sensor and the driver side seat heating. My driver side mirror was also replaced under warranty, but then I've listed everything part from occasional strange sounds. Not bad at 100k miles I reckon.

I'm sure your Jeeps have served you well. But inevitably there is a reason the brand came on this list, and it was hardly for being exclusive like say Maserati. Regarding AMG, I suspect the reason they made it to the list may be owner related, like Alpina. These specials are hardly driven by grandmas and thus the risk of serious damage is bigger. I don't know about other places, but here AMG are often driven by young yuppies doing well in the stockmarket and with driving skills not quite up to par. And as far as I'm concerned, Merc skipped all knowledge about build quality in 1996 in favour of marketing hype and fancy appearance.
The engineers hoped to modify the boot lid in order to minimize wind resistance.The easiest method involved attaching
a rear spoiler, though that would detract from the vehicle's lines.
Alternatively, the lip of the lid could be enlarged, though that would require significant more work. Naturally, the team chose the second approach, and set to work in a wind tunnel lab in Miyoshi. A while later, they emerged with the hoped-for design, which was both aerodynamic and aesthetically pleasing...


2000 Xedos 9 2,5. Stock features: push-a-button retract mirrors, 1500 kg towing capasity, tranny cooler, rear swaybar, pollen filter, roof rack mounts.

Ported heads, knifeedged IM, dropin K&N with wheelwell airduct.


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#9 Troutman

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 07:33 PM

Each step up in technological terms makes old-fashioned 'over-engineering' much harder to maintain. Combined with price sensitivity it can only lead to quality downgrading.
Mazdaworld Federation - Special OPs Unit
"The silver glow of the starlight in the night sky forever beckons us to a far greater reality; it is only in death that we accept the invitation." -The Great Troutman, Nov 18, 2008
'07 Holden Caprice

#10 ///BHRpowered

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 09:57 PM

xedos, the thing with Jeeps is lazy people who think they don't need to do anything, the same reason honda's fail...well no there crap

I will say that there are ALOT of diff and transfer case failures, but 99% of those are noobs who come on and thought they had to change the fluid every 60-100k or worse, had it changed at a shop and put atf fluid in it.

I would say hundreds of threads telling people time and time again, TC only works with a certain kind of fluid designed for it, it has to be changed every 30k unconditionally, idiots with 100k on the fluid and failures are not Jeeps problem, retards who don't put FM in the diff with the fluid is also not Jeeps fault.
Mazdaworld Federation - General/"Underboss"

2000 Millenia S...It's a car with stuff in it
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee...4.7, Limited, Quadra-Drive, Loaded.
2005 Audi S4...V8, 6spd, miltek
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee...5.7 Hemi, Overland, '14 LED headlights coming soon
2005 ZX-6rr...Muzzy, power commander 3, bixenons
1987 GPZ500...Vance Hines, full led, bixenons
2013 Lamborghini LP560-4 Spyder...possible twin turbo?
"You have entered, BHR's world. Proceed at your own risk" - MCfrank/zaocaddy
"BHR is more correct than you could imagine." - Troutman
"I guess we all proved BHR right.....again....." - Frankzao
QUOTE(SKI @ Apr 27 2006, 01:26 AM) View Post

First of all, we are smart enough to know that BHR doesn't really exist, he is an illusion in all our minds....

"The perfect weapon for terrorising Veyrons!"

#11 ///BHRpowered

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:02 PM

Every problem below is something regular owner maintance would take care of, and frankly everyone says, its printed everywhere and people still ignore

1. TC fluid, change it every 30k, no exceptions
2. diff fluid, 30k for normal use, 12k with major offroading or water crossings
3. the engine runs hot, mid line doesn't mean anything, the temp gauge isn't on and off, its very sensitive, everyone says its normal, stop adding shit to coolant
4. come to a complete stop before shifting the TC into 4wd or 4-lo, why is this so hard? why do you get upset when there is a large bang?
5. thats right, spark plugs are to change, that doesn't mean you just skip out on them
Mazdaworld Federation - General/"Underboss"

2000 Millenia S...It's a car with stuff in it
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee...4.7, Limited, Quadra-Drive, Loaded.
2005 Audi S4...V8, 6spd, miltek
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee...5.7 Hemi, Overland, '14 LED headlights coming soon
2005 ZX-6rr...Muzzy, power commander 3, bixenons
1987 GPZ500...Vance Hines, full led, bixenons
2013 Lamborghini LP560-4 Spyder...possible twin turbo?
"You have entered, BHR's world. Proceed at your own risk" - MCfrank/zaocaddy
"BHR is more correct than you could imagine." - Troutman
"I guess we all proved BHR right.....again....." - Frankzao
QUOTE(SKI @ Apr 27 2006, 01:26 AM) View Post

First of all, we are smart enough to know that BHR doesn't really exist, he is an illusion in all our minds....

"The perfect weapon for terrorising Veyrons!"

#12 Troutman

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:15 PM

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Mazdaworld Federation - Special OPs Unit
"The silver glow of the starlight in the night sky forever beckons us to a far greater reality; it is only in death that we accept the invitation." -The Great Troutman, Nov 18, 2008
'07 Holden Caprice

#13 ///BHRpowered

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:31 PM

I disagree with pretty much everything on the reliable list, utter crap
Mazdaworld Federation - General/"Underboss"

2000 Millenia S...It's a car with stuff in it
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee...4.7, Limited, Quadra-Drive, Loaded.
2005 Audi S4...V8, 6spd, miltek
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee...5.7 Hemi, Overland, '14 LED headlights coming soon
2005 ZX-6rr...Muzzy, power commander 3, bixenons
1987 GPZ500...Vance Hines, full led, bixenons
2013 Lamborghini LP560-4 Spyder...possible twin turbo?
"You have entered, BHR's world. Proceed at your own risk" - MCfrank/zaocaddy
"BHR is more correct than you could imagine." - Troutman
"I guess we all proved BHR right.....again....." - Frankzao
QUOTE(SKI @ Apr 27 2006, 01:26 AM) View Post

First of all, we are smart enough to know that BHR doesn't really exist, he is an illusion in all our minds....

"The perfect weapon for terrorising Veyrons!"

#14 Troutman

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:36 PM

QUOTE(Xedosman @ Jul 3 2008, 04:02 PM) View Post

To disagree with a servey placement is really something rolleyes.gif


Mazdaworld Federation - Special OPs Unit
"The silver glow of the starlight in the night sky forever beckons us to a far greater reality; it is only in death that we accept the invitation." -The Great Troutman, Nov 18, 2008
'07 Holden Caprice

#15 ///BHRpowered

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:41 PM

yet not one survey puts into within a same 4 spot range
Mazdaworld Federation - General/"Underboss"

2000 Millenia S...It's a car with stuff in it
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee...4.7, Limited, Quadra-Drive, Loaded.
2005 Audi S4...V8, 6spd, miltek
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee...5.7 Hemi, Overland, '14 LED headlights coming soon
2005 ZX-6rr...Muzzy, power commander 3, bixenons
1987 GPZ500...Vance Hines, full led, bixenons
2013 Lamborghini LP560-4 Spyder...possible twin turbo?
"You have entered, BHR's world. Proceed at your own risk" - MCfrank/zaocaddy
"BHR is more correct than you could imagine." - Troutman
"I guess we all proved BHR right.....again....." - Frankzao
QUOTE(SKI @ Apr 27 2006, 01:26 AM) View Post

First of all, we are smart enough to know that BHR doesn't really exist, he is an illusion in all our minds....

"The perfect weapon for terrorising Veyrons!"

#16 Xedosman

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:03 AM

Always nice to see upmarket german brands on the crappy side; so many Merc's I couldn't even remember all mentioned if trying clap.gif

BHR, I'm sure you're right about mistreatment and using wrong fluids and all. But do you reckon Jeep is the only brand exposed to such mistreatment? How come the Toyota 4-runner, which compares to a Jeep, is listed as one of the best?

As far as I'm concerned, designing a car needing special fluids is retarded. I don't think Toyota would do that. Basically all Toyotas needs only 9 kinds of fluids:

1. Half decent engine oil as specified
2. Half decent coolant
3. Half decent ATF Dexron II for auto trannies, powersteering
4. Half decent GL4 for manual trannies
5. Half decent GL5 for axles, LSD approved if specified
6. Half decent Dot4 brake fluid
7. Half decent fuel as specified
8. Whatever washer fluid coping with -15 degrees C
9. A nice cup of coffee for the driver

The engineers hoped to modify the boot lid in order to minimize wind resistance.The easiest method involved attaching
a rear spoiler, though that would detract from the vehicle's lines.
Alternatively, the lip of the lid could be enlarged, though that would require significant more work. Naturally, the team chose the second approach, and set to work in a wind tunnel lab in Miyoshi. A while later, they emerged with the hoped-for design, which was both aerodynamic and aesthetically pleasing...


2000 Xedos 9 2,5. Stock features: push-a-button retract mirrors, 1500 kg towing capasity, tranny cooler, rear swaybar, pollen filter, roof rack mounts.

Ported heads, knifeedged IM, dropin K&N with wheelwell airduct.


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#17 ///BHRpowered

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 08:23 PM

xedos - its certainly not, but one the other hand people see Jeeps as die-hard go through anything, I'm sure hummer....h1 owners have the same mindset.

The biggest problem is that no Jeep transfer case takes the same fluid, alot of people complain about this but if they would look at how different they are they would see why, the 99-04 for example takes a special blend only found at the dealer.

don't ask me to explain how its different, don't rant on and say its just dealer garbage, tis not, search any jeep forum in the world and they'll all point you to failure after failure from non "mopar nv247249" fluid. Its weird stuff though, a very light cloudy color when new, no smell what so ever and very slippery, much more so then regular motor oil, almost like a thick olive oil
Mazdaworld Federation - General/"Underboss"

2000 Millenia S...It's a car with stuff in it
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee...4.7, Limited, Quadra-Drive, Loaded.
2005 Audi S4...V8, 6spd, miltek
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee...5.7 Hemi, Overland, '14 LED headlights coming soon
2005 ZX-6rr...Muzzy, power commander 3, bixenons
1987 GPZ500...Vance Hines, full led, bixenons
2013 Lamborghini LP560-4 Spyder...possible twin turbo?
"You have entered, BHR's world. Proceed at your own risk" - MCfrank/zaocaddy
"BHR is more correct than you could imagine." - Troutman
"I guess we all proved BHR right.....again....." - Frankzao
QUOTE(SKI @ Apr 27 2006, 01:26 AM) View Post

First of all, we are smart enough to know that BHR doesn't really exist, he is an illusion in all our minds....

"The perfect weapon for terrorising Veyrons!"

#18 The Only MTS

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 09:26 PM

Wow protective commercialism at its finest.... they fail even with the MOPAR crap...
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QUOTE(Saint @ Oct 14 2008, 12:26 AM) View Post
QUOTE(Frankzao @ Oct 13 2008, 09:06 PM) View Post

BHR has not learned that driving a milly can also be fun........he still thinks it can't tow, remember?


Tow? He thinks it is made of sugar and melts in the rain :)


#19 ///BHRpowered

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 09:47 PM

I really have no idea what the fluid is, in my 242...hmm to translate - 93-98 2wd/4wd transfer case in the grand cherokee's you could use off the shelf atf3, nice nad easy.

not in the wj...argh 99-04 grands, I have only seen 2 actual failures of the t/c, 1 on a ZJ...damn it 93-98 grand, and another on the wj...99-04, and this is in a good 5 years in the jeep world, both were used offroad a damn good bit, fluid was changed, high mileage and then one day its the exact same story, going down the highway and BAM!!! suddenly it feels like your in neutral leaving a large skid of oil and metal bits down the road.

damn it you people need to speak jeep

"wj 247 qd"
grand cherokee 99-04 with 4hi/n/4lo tc Limited slip diffs and 4.7 v8.
Mazdaworld Federation - General/"Underboss"

2000 Millenia S...It's a car with stuff in it
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee...4.7, Limited, Quadra-Drive, Loaded.
2005 Audi S4...V8, 6spd, miltek
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee...5.7 Hemi, Overland, '14 LED headlights coming soon
2005 ZX-6rr...Muzzy, power commander 3, bixenons
1987 GPZ500...Vance Hines, full led, bixenons
2013 Lamborghini LP560-4 Spyder...possible twin turbo?
"You have entered, BHR's world. Proceed at your own risk" - MCfrank/zaocaddy
"BHR is more correct than you could imagine." - Troutman
"I guess we all proved BHR right.....again....." - Frankzao
QUOTE(SKI @ Apr 27 2006, 01:26 AM) View Post

First of all, we are smart enough to know that BHR doesn't really exist, he is an illusion in all our minds....

"The perfect weapon for terrorising Veyrons!"

#20 The Only MTS

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 09:53 PM

Must be the same affliction of the Chrysler mini-vans.... transmission designed to fail terminally at 150-200K kms.... or roughly translated... just out of warranty
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Sadly sold to another.... but I am still the same prick.

QUOTE(Saint @ Oct 14 2008, 12:26 AM) View Post
QUOTE(Frankzao @ Oct 13 2008, 09:06 PM) View Post

BHR has not learned that driving a milly can also be fun........he still thinks it can't tow, remember?


Tow? He thinks it is made of sugar and melts in the rain :)