Miller Time Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 It's bad amigos. I finally went in to get that CEL dealt with expecting the cure to good ol P0421 to be a new O2 sensor. Instead, I was presented with the following exhaust gas temp readings off their infrared scope. Bank 2 Cat Temperature at inlet 450 degrees Temperature at outlet 530 degrees Result: In spec Bank 1 Cat Temperature at inlet 460 degrees Temperature at outlet 460 degrees Result: Very, very, not OK Leaping dogsnot -- the quote is $1470 for the cat and $500 labour to install. Someone tell me there are aftermarket cats for this car and I really don't have to be raped by Mazda. (This, in fact, was not a Mazda dealer but they say they have to go there for the part...) Also, what do you think of the guy's suggestion to first replace all plugs then both 02 sensors on that side as a first shot. He says on very rare occasions he's seen a cat come back to life after that treatment. My plugs have 115,000 km on them. Finally, anyone actually replace a cat themselves? What kind of hassle factor are we talking? I see from the shop manual that they are snugged right up against the manifolds. In fact, the guy today said you pretty much have to remove the manifolds and a crossmember to get it out. Seems hard to believe. And really finally, dear lord, do not let this be due to mid grade gas. I'll pay twice that repair bill just to avoid the I told you sos from the likes of BHR and his Flat Earth associates....Logically I'm certain it can't be, yet....yet.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
///BHRpowered Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 umm, sounds like its time to throw on a highflow cat for all of 250 in parts and install but yes, it was most certainly caused by using cheap gas, perhaps you should pay the full bill as a fine?, you know paying the extra money you "saved" on gas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renboy Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I've done it before, I can do it again. I remember there was a place in the states that sold the cats for relatively cheap ~$300. And labour, I'm sure we can work something out. http://www.villa-automotive.com/ReasonsFor...rterFailure.htm Please note the excessive fuel entering exhaust part. High HC's are excessive fuel, and where do those come from? Miller, take your car to Mazda, I believe the cats have a 160k warranty on them. It could turn out to be a free fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohamedeladawy@hotmail.com Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 294,000 miles...not one time ive failed the cats. however, i drive pretty aggressively and take the car throughout its whole rpm range atleast once every time i drive it. so does this mean that i shouldnt worry about unburned gas or should i? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I've done it before, I can do it again. I remember there was a place in the states that sold the cats for relatively cheap ~$300. And labour, I'm sure we can work something out. http://www.villa-automotive.com/ReasonsFor...rterFailure.htm Please note the excessive fuel entering exhaust part. High HC's are excessive fuel, and where do those come from? Miller, take your car to Mazda, I believe the cats have a 160k warranty on them. It could turn out to be a free fix. Only one catch.... Mazda will look at when the maintenance was last done... plugs at 115,000kms will void that likely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinopikachu Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 perhaps you should pay the full bill as a fine?, you know paying the extra money you "saved" on gas HAHAHAHAHAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
///BHRpowered Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 a few things to note, yes the plugs make a big difference, and 2nd ren In the U.S all cars sold after 84/85ish are required to carry a 90k (miles) warrenty and a 96 month warrenty, of course from date of first use. Not sure how it is in canada, but I'm sure it would have expired by now. As for cats, grip, plat, marcus and myself all have high flow cats and paid less then 280 for parts and install. Now the install was done while having a whoe exhaust put on so that might have made it cheaper, but I can't imagine by much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 perhaps you should pay the full bill as a fine?, you know paying the extra money you "saved" on gas HAHAHAHAHAHA You laugh?? you cheap fucker, you admittedly put Regular in yours... twice even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinopikachu Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 STFU fatass, it was only tice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Matters not. Still a sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinopikachu Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 SILENCE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 You're no Millenia ANgel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Time Posted February 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 BHR - where did you get those hi-flow cats and did they include the manifolds or was there custom work done to attach them to the manifolds? I think step one is try Mazda out. If they toss me into the street, then Ren, name me a price. MTS has already volunteered to help with a plug change. Maybe we do it all at once. I have a sneaking feeling it's plugs. I've been getting some hesitation and have had a lumpy idle for a couple of months now (although no codes other than the cat inefficiency). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Unburnt fuel carryover into cat, causing overheating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohamedeladawy@hotmail.com Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/serv...750982_-1_10251 here is the link for high flow cats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohamedeladawy@hotmail.com Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 btw bhr...wat did u use as your resonator? i know u are running 2.5 and the stock resonator cant fit. just wondering is all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renboy Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 You guys aren't getting it. It's not his main cat that is the concern, that would be $200 installed just about anywhere. It's the precious precats that are fucking extortion, and a little more tedious to install. Generic $80 cats will NOT work in this instance. You have to remove the entire exhaust manifold (precat) and replace with a new one. Miller it's not hard, you need to have the proper tools or you can't do it. Well, you can't do it without a lot of band aids. When I get home tonight I'll see if I can find the site that sells them. Or, I remember reading an article saying that it is possible to clean clogged cats with citric acid. It cleans the crap, without damaging the catalysts. If you have a reliable source for citric acid, maybe we do a test? I believe it was the University of Edmonton that published the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I can maybe get some citric acid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohamedeladawy@hotmail.com Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 citric acid huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Time Posted February 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Are you shitting me, Ren?! Instead of paying Mazda two grand I could be washing my cat in fucking lemon juice!!? As for the cat itself -- yeah, it's most certainly the little one snugged up against the manifold. If it were the one midline in the exhaust I'd be thrilled. Hence my question to BHR about whether his highflow was integrated with the manifold...Too good to be true for that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
///BHRpowered Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 yes, but it could just be empty inside also like the one on my old jeep was at 150k. If it is the precats then no, I have not had that replaced, but can't imagine it being expensive, I mean it should be extremely easy to remove and replace, not like you have to remove the headers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 It is the precat on the firewall side... the most ignorant one. And yes removing the exhaust manifold is required as it is one piece with the precat, and here in Canada at Mazda $1400 for the part.... stealership I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renboy Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 BHR, you obviously don't know what a cat looks like on the inside. It's never empty. The inside of a cat looks like a thick honeycomb block that's coated with 3 (iirc) catalysts. If the catalysts get coated with oil or fuel, then they no longer come in contact with the exhaust and no longer do their job. And since they're coated the spaces in the honeycomb get filled up with crap, hence the term plugged cat. And they're not cheap, at any dealership whether in Canada or the States. And they ARE the header (exhaust manifold), and as such, somewhat tedious to replace. Not hard, but definitely a knuckle breaker of a job. Yeah Miller, I didn't have time last night to search for the cheap new cat, but I know for a fact it was citric acid that they used to clean them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renboy Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 This isn't the article I was talking about, but gives an idea. http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news-print.cfm?art=1737 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Citric acid is used in many industrial and food processes to clean equipment, usually a 2% caustic wash followed by a 2% citric acid wash at about 80 deg Celsius... it is amazing at what this will take off. BUT you have to take all the precautions of rinsing to avoid caustic/acid reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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