First Xedos 9 Mce (or Milly) Running On Lpg

[Troutman]

Of course...every one is wrong...but you.

 

Correct, the Good Lord ///BHR is self-appointed judge, jury and executioner of the known universe.

[enginph]

 

Cuto give up. Remember you are arguing with someone who only eats pancakes with diet coke, hates all females, and has a spoiler in his milly that he never drives.

 

[///BHRpowered]

cuto - I have not seen a SINGLE, and I mean a SINGLE station with in 1000 miles of me, you could go to a speciality place maybe, but that cuts out roadtrips, long distance, makes the cost higher, and like I said, the cost to convert alone makes it useless.

 

In europe they wasted money putting the system in, the U.S hopefully will not be as wasteful for something that has no place and cannot be feasible used.

 

I can boil it all down to a simple statement - any new power/fuel source which requires extensive cost will be abandoned since it cannot survive, but even more important to that is that ANY fuel/power source which requires a culturely shift as well as a daily change in society and drivers will NEVER, and I mean NEVER work. So far all systems have this draw back. Biodiesel might not - but the cost is through the roof while at the same time causing the price of food to go up.

 

the only way things will happen is if the change actually benefits the consumer, and I don't mean what you THINK will, but something that really would. Something that without ANY mods you can put in the tank and say get 20% better fuel economy through some further refining of the gas (as an example)

 

In a nutshell if you came up with a fuel that put out 4x as much polution but gave only 20-35% more fuel economy without any changes then I promise you it would take off in an instant over anything eles.

[cuto]

cuto - I have not seen a SINGLE, and I mean a SINGLE station with in 1000 miles of me, you could go to a speciality place maybe, but that cuts out roadtrips, long distance, makes the cost higher, and like I said, the cost to convert alone makes it useless.

 

In europe they wasted money putting the system in, the U.S hopefully will not be as wasteful for something that has no place and cannot be feasible used.

 

I can boil it all down to a simple statement - any new power/fuel source which requires extensive cost will be abandoned since it cannot survive, but even more important to that is that ANY fuel/power source which requires a culturely shift as well as a daily change in society and drivers will NEVER, and I mean NEVER work. So far all systems have this draw back. Biodiesel might not - but the cost is through the roof while at the same time causing the price of food to go up.

 

the only way things will happen is if the change actually benefits the consumer, and I don't mean what you THINK will, but something that really would. Something that without ANY mods you can put in the tank and say get 20% better fuel economy through some further refining of the gas (as an example)

 

In a nutshell if you came up with a fuel that put out 4x as much polution but gave only 20-35% more fuel economy without any changes then I promise you it would take off in an instant over anything eles.

 

U really are a nut case. Getting a LPG pump up and running is absolutely free ( It is a meek investment on part of any fuel company). A tank...a pump..and thats it !

 

Well: i don't care about your sad arguments...a poor country like Portugal has this on our map:

 

 

And for your info:

 

The total area of the country—including the overseas territories of Azores (2,247 square kilometers/868 square miles) and the Madeira Islands (794 square kilometers/307 square miles), both autonomous regions of Portugal—is 92,345 square kilometers (35,655 square miles). The area of Portugal is thus slightly smaller than the U.S. state of Indiana.

 

Now...i could map you all the LPG pumps the rest of Europe, but by the example shown above i guess EVEN you will figure that every Gas Company (BP, Repsol, Galp, WHATEVER) installs a freaking pump on demand. Coz they really profit on selling LPG you fuck! Now: LPG is 0,46 Cents of an Euro here. Gas is 1,2.

 

That would justify a SIMPLE mod on a car....yes SIMPLE. A good installer does it in 3 days, with all the paper work and Gov inspection included....

 

[///BHRpowered]

you are wrong on so many levels.

 

in the U.S you might be able to install your own pump, but that doesn't answer the question of roadtrips and forcing you to return to a base for fuel - that cannot, and will not happen in america

 

your also overlooking in the fact that in the US it is ILLEGAL to dispense LPG without a license for handling reasons. the tv show "trucks" did a special on this followed up by the news.

 

and you still haven't answered the matter of cost - tis not even remotely worth it, its worse the na hybrid. Sure you'll save money....8-10 years down the road, but because anyone that invests in this is a trend hippie they won't have the car then.

 

AND your forgetting about taxes

[enginph]

Finding an LPG pump in EU is like finding a diesel station in US. They are simply everywhere.

 

Now US only has CNG which is the same price as gas. And you can hardly go from one station to another with one full tank. Diesel is a little cheaper but diesel cars are expensive. So gas is the only choice in terms of practicality and cost.

 

[cuto]

you are wrong on so many levels.

 

in the U.S you might be able to install your own pump, but that doesn't answer the question of roadtrips and forcing you to return to a base for fuel - that cannot, and will not happen in america

 

your also overlooking in the fact that in the US it is ILLEGAL to dispense LPG without a license for handling reasons. the tv show "trucks" did a special on this followed up by the news.

 

and you still haven't answered the matter of cost - tis not even remotely worth it, its worse the na hybrid. Sure you'll save money....8-10 years down the road, but because anyone that invests in this is a trend hippie they won't have the car then.

 

AND your forgetting about taxes

 

BHR: its illegal for privates to have an LPG pump here, only fuel stations or installers with credentials. What i stated (and you do not understand) is that: LPG pumps are installed by service stations. I do'nt have an LPG car, but on a 5 kms radius from my home there are 3 service stations with LPG pumps. In a country smaller than Indiana, there's a service station with LPG pump at the range of quarter of an lpg car tank.

[///BHRpowered]

saint, if thats the case then it must be a pain in EU, because here only 1 out of every 10-15 stations has diesel, and not always ones on the road - once again limiting range.

 

you don't get it cuto, your just wrong on so many levels, and you still haven't answered to the fact that the cost alone makes it not worht it, let alone that if if took off demand would increase, supply would remain the same and because the shipping and transport network isn't in place (as oppose to oil lines) the price would be probably double that of gas.

 

once again your theory is wrong, 3 pumps in a country the size of indiana? here in the us indiania probably has 10-30,000 gas stations. People have to be able to find one at all times and in any location, people pass through and get low, people have to be able to take trips without walking back, when you limit range to a central location you might as well just have an electric car with a really long extension cord - because its the same damn thing.

 

It is not feasible, nor reasonable in any capacity. Until there is a fuel that provides all the advantages of gas with not only no drawbacks but increased advantages there will be no change. Right now gas is UNMATCHED in terms of its broad range of advantages, the only real downside are supply (which is very debatable) and impact o nthe hippies - as much as I wish my exhaust was choking them to death its simply not the case.

 

In the span of that message I probably took 8-10 breaths, expelling C02

[SteveSter]

 

In the span of that message I probably took 8-10 breaths, expelling C02

 

 

Thats more than your Millenia breathes in several months.

[cuto]

saint, if thats the case then it must be a pain in EU, because here only 1 out of every 10-15 stations has diesel, and not always ones on the road - once again limiting range.

 

you don't get it cuto, your just wrong on so many levels, and you still haven't answered to the fact that the cost alone makes it not worht it, let alone that if if took off demand would increase, supply would remain the same and because the shipping and transport network isn't in place (as oppose to oil lines) the price would be probably double that of gas.

 

once again your theory is wrong, 3 pumps in a country the size of indiana? here in the us indiania probably has 10-30,000 gas stations. People have to be able to find one at all times and in any location, people pass through and get low, people have to be able to take trips without walking back, when you limit range to a central location you might as well just have an electric car with a really long extension cord - because its the same damn thing.

 

It is not feasible, nor reasonable in any capacity. Until there is a fuel that provides all the advantages of gas with not only no drawbacks but increased advantages there will be no change. Right now gas is UNMATCHED in terms of its broad range of advantages, the only real downside are supply (which is very debatable) and impact o nthe hippies - as much as I wish my exhaust was choking them to death its simply not the case.

 

In the span of that message I probably took 8-10 breaths, expelling C02

 

You keep saying im wrong on so many levels, yet you simply don't read what i write...maybe its my problem... DUDE : wake up. Read again, there are 3 pumps in an area of 5 km around my HOME. How can you not see those LPG flags on the map???? Besides...no costs involved other than getting trucks to fuel the pumps.

 

You simply do not read...

 

In this shot you can see 4 LPG fitted service stations: all of them are around my house and that circle the nearest pump is like 900 yards from me (its that repsol station where i fuel my gas on the xedos). The farthest one is about 5 km from me. GOT IT FINALLY?

 

 

From the North to South Portugal has about 600 Miles...now get your eyes on that map and check how many LPG pumps a guy can get on a trip...

 

I've put things as simple as i can (in fact even my 3 yo son is nodding " yes Dad i get it!"). Told you that LPG is cheaper (byproduct) than gasoline. Transport is not an issue. Investment is cheap and not a factor on any station.

[Matt64341]

BHR, you are talking about something entirely different. It would be unrealistic to have every car in America switch to LPG, the resources are not there, the cost of switching would be astronomical, and the price of LPG would rise to reflect that. That would put us right back where we are now. Gas is currently the only resource that can support all of the cars that are on the road, there is just not enough of any other one fuel source that can do that. But it IS realistic for someone like Cuto to convert to LPG. There are places for him to fill it up, the cost is less than gas, it would pay for itself, there are really no disadvantages. For me, there are no places that I am aware of to fill up, so it wouldn't make sense. Also, I cannot think of a single gas station around that does not have a diesel pump.

[enginph]

I remember there was a guy in UK who tried to convert his ferrari to LPG. Ferrari claimed the car back I still dont believe there is no disadvantage. At least you can not go to enclosed garages because of safety issues. And some models constantly report LPG related problems. I dont know if its because of improper maintenance or just the way it is but some them reports problem.

[cuto]

I remember there was a guy ın UK who tried to convert his ferrari to LPG. Ferrari claimed the car back I still dont believe there is no disadvantage. At least you can not go to enclosed garages because of safety issues. And some models constantly report LPG related problems. I dont know if its because of improper maintenance or just the way it is but some them reports problem.

 

It's not an issue with the latest Sequential injection LPG systems. Problems were valve related. That is now solved .

 

As for the parking: in most countries there are no restrictions to park an LPG fitted car. Some coubtries don't allow older LPG conversions to park in a garage. Security is not a problem nowadays: LPG is safer than gasoline in case of a fire on a car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icfsxa7Hfi0...feature=related

[mts]

I am glad you guys are keeping this on topic, even if that asshat BHR keeps bringing his moronic infantile views in.... Well done to the patrons, shame on BHR.

[Frankzao]

How did "Ferrari claimed the car back "?

[///BHRpowered]

what a small world you all live in where only 3 variables out of 3000 seem to matter.

 

I'm glad ferrari did the RIGHT thing. LPG is an overall failure in EU, in the U.S is would be a disaster. For simple reason of infostructure you can't have multiple fuels to begin with, and your still limited area. As it stands with gas you can have unlimited range, with LPG even if you actually got 500 miles or so your limited to 250 one way, and more like 230-225 since driving conditions change.

 

I admit hydrogen is a possible source, but the cost to produce pure hydrogen makes it as costly or MORE then current petrol.

[cuto]

what a small world you all live in where only 3 variables out of 3000 seem to matter.

 

I'm glad ferrari did the RIGHT thing. LPG is an overall failure in EU, in the U.S is would be a disaster. For simple reason of infostructure you can't have multiple fuels to begin with, and your still limited area. As it stands with gas you can have unlimited range, with LPG even if you actually got 500 miles or so your limited to 250 one way, and more like 230-225 since driving conditions change.

 

I admit hydrogen is a possible source, but the cost to produce pure hydrogen makes it as costly or MORE then current petrol.

 

Overall failure in Europe? From admiring Bush some much you are becoming worse than him.

 

"LPG (liquefied petroleum gas), is a natural hydrocarbon fuel made up of commercial propane and commercial butane. Most petrol driven vehicles, including both cars and light commercial vehicles, can be converted to run on LPG.

 

 

 

Also known as “autogas”, it is a by-product of the oil and gas industries, but is a cleaner, greener and cheaper fuel. Furthermore, Dutch scientists have published research and testing results showing that LPG vehicles score better in terms of safety than petrol vehicles.

 

 

 

LPG is the most widely available alternative fuel in the United Kingdom with over 1,300 vehicle refueling sites and stations in the country, while some businesses use their own so called “bunkered” refueling facilities. The number of UK’s motorists that opted for LPG conversion is currently 150,000 and growing.

 

 

 

LPG is also widely used in Europe as an environmentally friendly alternative transport fuel, with over 7 million vehicles on European roads running on autogas. And, as various surveys show, over twelve million vehicles worldwide are run on LPG. South Korea leads the field with over 1.7 million, followed by Italy, Poland and Turkey with over 1 million vehicles. The former Soviet republic of Armenia may, however, be the world leader in autogas use. The Armenian transport ministry estimates as much as 20 to 30% of vehicles use autogas compared with traditional gasoline.

 

 

 

Did you know…

 

 

 

Humberside Police has over 460 vehicles and has nearly finished converting the entire fleet to run on LPG. Having run LPG-converted vehicles for nearly a decade, they have saved up to £300,000 on fuel costs per year.

 

 

 

Several of the vehicles owned by the Queen are powered by LPG - Four royal cars - a 1960 Rolls-Royce Phantom V, a Daimler Limousine, a Rover 400 and the Metrocab favoured by Prince Philip - have so far undergone LPG conversions.

 

 

 

Free resident parking is offered by Westminster City Council, London, while LPG parking discounts are offered from Councils including the London Boroughs of Hammersmith & Fulham, Richmond and Islington.

 

 

 

LPG engines have set speed records of 195 miles per hour."

 

More: ninety percent of all cabs in JAPAN are LPG fueled. Almost 50% of all cabs in Spain run on LPG.

 

--

http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/interesting_facts.php

The Queen's latest addition to the Royal LPG fleet

 

The Bentley used for the wedding of Peter Phillips, the Queen's eldest grandson and his Canadian bride Autumn Kelly at Windsor Castle's St George's Chapel. in May 2008, was converted at the Bentley factory to use LPG.

Like the previous royal limousine, the Queen has used many vehicles that operate on this ultra clean fuel. This includes a traditional London taxi cab used by the Windsor Castle staff for errands and rumoured that Prince Phillip takes it out for a spin by himself when he wants to drive into town to keep a low profile.

 

Stars shoot for autogas

 

Former Republic of Ireland football captain and premier league player for Southampton, Andy Townsend, has joined the ranks of celebrities who rely on autogas as their fuel of choice. Townsend has recently had his 4.4 litre supercharged Range Rover Sport converted to run on the Prins VSI system - a decison taken to cut his fuel bills and reduce fhis carbon footprint.

 

BMW breaks LPG world speed record

 

BMW tuning company AC Schnitzer claimed a new world record for the fastest ever LPG powered car in November 2008.

 

Using a tuned BMW 3-series coupe, the car lapped the famous Nardo test track at 318.1km/h (equivelent to 198mph.

 

The AC Shnitzer GP3.10 is far from a stripped out racing special. It is ready for the road with all the expected luxury features. Under the bonnet is BMW's M5 5 litre engine with power raised from 500bhp to 544bhp with the aid of the tuned LPG system.

 

UK built LPG supercar

 

An ambitious young Norfolk company has wheeled out a new British sportscar designed to run on LPG as well as petrol

 

The venture is the brainchild of Dereham based Breckland Technology Ltd – part of Hong Kong based multinational, Riche Holdings.

 

The LPG capability not only helps to reduce running costs and emissions but also means Beira is capable of a range of some 700 miles between refuelling stops – the equivalent of travelling non-stop from the north to the south coast of France.

 

Breckland’s Beira is a two-seat V8 soft top based on proven GM architecture and powered by GM’s LS2, 6-litre V8 engine, tuned to produce just a whisper short of 400bhp. Tipping the scales at 1,400kg, the Beira’s power-to-weight ratio promises a sub-five second sprint to 100kph, coupled with tremendous torque and a governed top speed of 155mph.

The car debuts in left-hand drive form, underlining its appeal to enthusiasts in Europe and well beyond, and will be available in the UK and internationally from November 2008.The on-the-road price is expected to be around £55,000 in the UK

 

It's a gas for bikes

 

It's a gas ... is LPG the future?

 

 

 

LPG autogas isn’t just for cars and vans

 

Bike manufacturers aren’t convinced there would be enough demand, especially with the complication of an additinal fuel tank. However the storage of the LPG tank can be overcome as with this V Strom, above, built by Suzuki Belgium utilising the top case.

 

The LPG conversion costs around £1,250, worthwhile for high mileage bikers

 

 

LPG vehicle markets in the UK and around the world

 

From only 3,500 at the end of 1998, there were 144,000 vehicles on the road in the UK by the end of 2007. Since then this figure will have increased to over 150,000. We have over 1400 refuelling stations which is one of the highest number compared with the number of vehicles in the world.

 

Worldwide at the end of 2006 there were over 12million LPG vehicles with 7.3 million of these in Europe.

 

Notable markets include:

 

Korea - 2.047 million - the largest market in the world

 

Australia - 550,000 - now one of the fastest growing markets following the introduction of grants in 2006

 

Japan - 300,000 - mostly taxis which are required to run on LPG

 

Poland - 1.9million - the largest market in Europe

 

Turkey - 1.8million

 

Italy - 950,000 - one of the longest established markets and one of two main sources of LPG equiment used in the UK

 

Netherlands - 275,000 - the other main source of LPG equipment used in the UK

 

France - 150,000 - our closest neighbour and with one of the best refuelling networks on main routes

 

Germany - 125,000 - and the fastest growing market in the world following the government freeze on fuel duty to 2018

 

BHR: ur a loser!

[enginph]

How did "Ferrari claimed the car back "?

 

I think if you buy a ferrari you have a special agreement. They can come and pay whatever you paid and take it back. In this case they couldnt figure out where to put the tank and called ferrari dealer. They came and saved the car

 

Actually BHR has some points in LPG conversion. If you will pay thousands of euros for one car conversion and maybe millions of euros for infrastructure why not burning the LPG in plants and buying plug-in hybrid cars? This gives 3 times more useful energy than burning the fuel individually in cars as well, hence much better eficiency and lower carbon emissions. And it can use the current electricity infrastructure.

 

[cuto]

How did "Ferrari claimed the car back "?

 

I think if you buy a ferrari you have a special agreement. They can come and pay whatever you paid and take it back. In this case they couldnt figure out where to put the tank and called ferrari dealer. They came and saved the car

 

Actually BHR has some points in LPG conversion. If you will pay thousands of euros for one car conversion and maybe millions of euros for infrastructure why not burning the LPG in plants and buying plug-in hybrid cars? This gives 3 times more useful energy than burning the fuel individually in cars as well, hence much better eficiency and lower carbon emissions. And it can use the current electricity infrastructure.

 

Why not burn gasoline then? You are missing the point: in Europe it takes a very low investment to distribute LPG individually. Every single installer i know has its own LPG pump /and they are small businesses). As for the conversion cost: it is an investment that pays itself, each case has to be considered. In my case, 1600 Euros for the conversion; investment would be returned in 18 months. After that its all profit. That depends solely on how many miles per year you drive.

And remember: an LPG car runs on both fuels.

 

Now: u also are missing a point. Plug-in electrical cars are the future, as hydrogen fueled cars, but THAT would mean a HUGE amount of investmnet on getting new suply points. Remember LPG relies on already made infrastructures ( Refinaries, tranpsort, station services). Besides, i've seen a Prius converted to LPG...so the point is...if it's gonna be a hybrid and burn gasoline...well let it burn LPG instead if you want to.

 

Fully electrical cars are a different story. No point in comparing that with a mere LPG car.

 

 

[Troutman]

I now invite a high-pitched, deafening outburst of bawling and screeching from the Good ///BHRpowered.

[cuto]

I now invite a high-pitched, deafening outburst of bawling and screeching from the Good ///BHRpowered.

 

Nahhh...THIS will make him screech:

 

This is what he wants:

 

This is BHR singing:

and this is BHR testing a vette on LPG (he speaks german and looks a bit gayish)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaEBeJZACQ8

 

 

Oh and this is the exact same Prins Kit recommended for the MCE:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CqtDOrC1iQ

[///BHRpowered]

cuto - your still 100% wrong, and your little "facts" are nothing but a pitiful attempt, but before I go into that I do not admire bush, as I have publically said time and time again he was not hte best president, but he was far and away not only the only choice but the correct choice given the options, and I say that only because I didn't run

 

your little facts are nothing, I mean really, the queen? its done for the media and nothing more, royals cruise around in v8 and v12 S class sedens.

 

Also before you go putting together a list of "accomplishments" on LPG maybe you should consider the compound exponential achievements of petrol, what about that? It is infact a failure in europe and the fact you don't understand confirms you support obama and shouldn't be allowed to breath. Billions, with a B was invested in a system that requires many thousands of dollars PER PERSON to convert there cars to, even then the system is not reliable, bulky tanks remove cargo space and mpg is generally the same or less then on standard petrol - so really what have you accomplished? your getting the same mpg, hell lets say you really did get more, right now petrol is STILL cheaper, when it goes back up to 4 dollars a gallon here or roughly 7 dollars a gallon there it would still take you YEARS to just break even

 

so what about it cuto - why are you running things like obama where you can just print money and its backed by nothing and means nothing. It is a FACT that no mass produced cars come from the factory with LPG, it is a FACT that these conversions are generally done on older cars, older cars that maybe, and I mean MAYBE 25% of the time even stay on the road long enough to break even.

 

so basically your paying money to limit your range, reduce cargo space with a massive explosive bound tank (a gas tank is not pressured mind you) and what do you get for your troubles, extra weight lowing your mpg a system that despite what people say is NOT removeable (no more removeable then a supercharger) and your a dirty hippie

[///BHRpowered]

and for the record, I want nothing to do with a Jeep SRT8, research my posts on JU, I'm firmly against it as it is a piece of shit that is not remotely a Jeep, the 5.7 Hemi however works nicely.

 

also, before you try and pull the Jeep argument you should know I spend just as much time on JF and JU as I do here, 100% of everyone that has done the conversion on the 4.7 and 3.0 have regetted it, it costs thousands to install, and on the 4.7 you actually have to unbolt the engine from the motormounts in order to reach the far right injector.

 

I should also mention these systems, while generally installed on older cars at a great cost only do nothing but add cost and VOID WARRANTIES on new cars.

[cuto]

and for the record, I want nothing to do with a Jeep SRT8, research my posts on JU, I'm firmly against it as it is a piece of shit that is not remotely a Jeep, the 5.7 Hemi however works nicely.

 

also, before you try and pull the Jeep argument you should know I spend just as much time on JF and JU as I do here, 100% of everyone that has done the conversion on the 4.7 and 3.0 have regetted it, it costs thousands to install, and on the 4.7 you actually have to unbolt the engine from the motormounts in order to reach the far right injector.

 

I should also mention these systems, while generally installed on older cars at a great cost only do nothing but add cost and VOID WARRANTIES on new cars.

 

You sir, are an idiot! PERIOD. I won't keep up with this discussion because, as an idiot, you always bring the arguments to your level and beat me outta experince on being an idiot.

 

No more clear facts for you SIR. Your cloudy mind fails to see the light. As a higher mind put it regarrding you: if you had a little more hair you'd be eateing grass on a field. Shame on YOU!

[enginph]

Hahah cuto throws the towel

 

 

BHR LPG is actually cheaper than gas in terms of mile per dollar.